Val is joined by guest Jeff Holland – a Benefits Advisor who works with Federal Employees across the country. Val and Jeff discuss the keys to federal employees having a successful retirement and how to utilize a survivor benefit option.

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3.15.24: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

3.15.24: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Speaker1:
Well, welcome back to the federal retirement show. I'm your host, Val Majewski with American Benefits Exchange. And I really appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule to learn about your benefits, retirement information, get some guidance. The the things that we believe that you need to know. And as we do from time to time, we'll have a guest on the show. Today we're having Mister Jeff Holland. He is one of our regional representatives, federal benefits specialists out of LA. But Jeff works all over the country with federal employees from all different agencies and all different stages of their career, and is an expert in federal benefits and retirement information. So, Jeff, I really appreciate you taking the time to join us today to share your thoughts, your guidance with the federal employees that are watching.

Speaker2:
Of course. Thank you for having me. For sure. Thank you.

Speaker1:
Appreciate it I appreciate it. Yeah. So, you know, as we we talk and you know, we're we're friends colleagues, uh, we've, we've been helping federal employees out with for, for numerous years. And our conversation today, what I want to talk to you about is just some of the things, right? The the patterns. You see, some of the biggest concerns that you see federal employees have, right? The areas you think that they really need assistance with. And so I want to dive into some of those things with you. Sure. But just to get started, right, if you're you're talking to a federal employee or just in general, a group of federal employees, what is one of the the bigger things that you see that they need, uh, assistance with? They really need help with.

Speaker2:
You know, I think there's a misconception as far as the Lahn Social security, a lot of federal employees and, you know, the 65, 67, 72 get Social Security. And financially, it doesn't make sense. It's not a smart investment when you take into account, just like the average age when you die in the United States is 77 years old. So from the time that you take Social Security as eligible as 62 years old for round numbers purposes, thousand dollars at 62 years old, if you delay it to 65, your income now is 1300. Is it $300 or 30% increase from 62 to 65? If you take $1,000 a check per month for 12 months over, say, 36 months, which is the three year gap from 6 to 65, it comes out to be $36,000. So if you take that number and the difference of income from 65 to 62, which is $300, it would take you ten years to recoup the $36,000 that you delayed. Now, at 65 years old, ten years later, is 75 years old. Yep. Now you have a scenario where you'll make $300 extra for the technically the last two years of your life if you actually make it.

Speaker1:
Well, that's the thing too, right? We never know when we're going to ultimately pass, right? That's the the biggest thing with Social Security. It's like the only way for us to know 100%, if you're making the best decision is to know when you're going to die. And none of us have that crystal ball, we don't know when our time is up. Right? But yeah, you're right, there is. We get to ask that question a lot. When should I take Social Security? What's the right move for me, you know, how's it going to affect me in the long term? But you're saying, you know what you've seen and your experience with dealing with federal employees is it might be more beneficial to take it right away as soon as they're first eligible right away?

Speaker2:
Because it makes no logical sense. Even if you go 62 to 67, seven years old, it all comes out to ten years on average to recoup the lost dollars that you bypassed. And that puts you at 75, 77, which is the average depth in the United States or 80. So granted, you can live longer and knock on wood, the goal is to live long as possible. But I'm a probability average guy. And the average deputy United States that's 77 years old. So me, I like to play the odds for me. Go get it. As soon as possible, because ultimately speaking, it might make out more sense to you because God forbid, you end up dying before that ten year run to recoup just the money that you bypass. And if you don't, then you made the wrong choice and the odds is against you in that situation.

Speaker1:
And we I did an episode recently, Jeff, where I talked about the information that recently came out from the Social Security Trust Report trustee's report, and they talked about, yeah, Social Security down the road may not be the same as it is today, where they might not be able to pay all of their obligations and the funds might exhaust themselves by 2033. So if you're thinking, yeah, well, there's a chance I could have a reduced benefit, it looks like it's $1,000 today. But you know, down the road it may not be as much you might want to get in there and get while the getting's good, so to speak. Right.

Speaker2:
Exactly, exactly.

Speaker1:
Well, then the other thing you said, too. I like that you. Said that the average, you know, death in the United States, 77 years old and the the people ask us, you know, what is my break even point? So if you look at Social Security and do the math, I'm a numbers guy to you, do the math. The break even for Social Security is at about 78.5 years old. Yeah. So if you're if your average death is 77, but the break even 78.5. Well, what does it make more sense to wait. So I like what you're saying from that point to say, hey start getting it collecting those benefits. Mhm. Um, and also if if Social Security does make some changes, it's highly unlikely that they're going to make changes to people already collecting benefits. True. Um, they may make changes for people that have delayed or haven't collected yet, but exactly chance of them changing that. So when you talk to federal employees about this right. They're even if what if they say, well, I don't need Social Security right away. Right. Like I don't I don't need the money.

Speaker2:
I see you I see you have bills. They have a bill. They need to pay a mortgage. They need to be accelerated, paid off sooner. You have a car note, you have a college fund, a grandkid, a vacation. There's something you could do with $1,000 a month. Delaying it never makes sense. There's something you use that money for. So whether you even if you want to just gift it away, it still makes more logical sense to just do that than just to delay it. Because you're basically saying to yourself, I'm gonna wait ten years to make an extra $300 a month. Yeah. And and it make no sense.

Speaker1:
Well, that I agree with you there to say. Yeah. What what if you could do other things with it? You can pay down your debts. You have, uh, get rid of some additional interest that you're paying because you think, hey, I'm going to get a guaranteed increase in my Social Security, but it might be washed away because you're paying more in interest on the other side somewhere. They use that to to pay off other things. Or if you don't need it, perhaps you can invest it somewhere, right? You can utilize it. Invest it somewhere. Yeah. And maybe make it work a little bit more for you if, if you don't need to spend it.

Speaker2:
Exactly. And then my thing is this those who don't need that Social Security, they're means they are good at investing and saving. So at the worst case scenario, you can use your logic and your skill set to invest it and save it into your plan and path that you've been doing all these times. I, I give this funny story, like I had a client and he said, Jeff, I'm eligible to retire, but I'm thinking about waiting another year or a year and a half. So I did the math and the save, and he would have made an extra like 2 or $300 a month. And I asked him, let me ask you a question. If you was on your deathbed, right. And God came down to you and said, hey, Val, Jeff, I'm gonna let you live for another two years. Well, it cost you $300 a month. Would you pay it all? Morris says, of course I pay it. Yeah. So why work another two years to make $300? And in the same breath, why delays those security for two, three years to make $300? Not in two years from now, but ten years from now. Sure.

Speaker1:
Yeah. Yeah. For that break even point. Yeah. From 62 to 65. Yeah. Um, no, the Social Security point is great because that is it's very confusing subject for federal employees. So they need to make dollars and cents of it. That's why we always recommend, hey, reach out to us. Um, you can reach out to Jeff. I believe we'll put up the email address on there as well. You can always go to Federal Retirement Show.com and fill out the form, and we can be in touch with you that way. But you can reach out, uh, to Jeff directly. We'll get the, uh, the email address put up here on the screen. But Jeff also on the other, on the other side. So you said Social Security, and I know we've talked previously. We talk all the time. I know you're concerned about people with their their TSP as well. Yeah. The volatility that's going out there in the market. The uncertainty uh you know people looking to utilize that money the right way. You know what kind of things do you normally see or or talk to federal employees about when it comes to their TSP?

Speaker2:
Well, for me, I always like to give a personal story. I have a godfather who was FAA for 40 some years, and he retired at the age of 71 years old. So I said, okay, phenomenal. 70 years old, 42 years of service. He seemed like he set us up for perfect success for the future. He passed away a year and a half after retirement, and at the time he was a married, he was a widow. So now you have a scenario where he's at retirement. He chose the monthly income that was payable to his lifetime. Yeah. Now people don't understand the money you save. The break even point is 20 years, so they only give you about 5% of your actual evaluation at the time of retirement. So that's 20 years. You can do the math and take that number you have. About .05 will be about the money, the average income they give you per month times about 1220 years. That's the money that we're going to exhaust. So with that being said, at the average age of retirement in his case was 70 years old. He had to make it to 91 years old just to.

Speaker2:
To receive what he said. Sure. And a logical sense. If somebody buys them properly, he would have known to roll the money over and now set up beneficiaries for his kids and children and what have you. But he didn't know that. So at 71 years old, when he passed away, you know, my friend, my God, brother, we talking about his, uh, actual inheritance. Guess what he had Begley. Option B that he cancelled our retirement because it was too expensive. Yeah, he had a basic that reduced by 75%. And then he thought he had the $700,000 TSP inheritance. But guess what? That money was into an annuity that would only pay with the lights on. So all the money he saved went back to the government. And that's now you're like, wow, you know, if he was properly advised, put into a proper account, not only can that save money for his kids, but his grandkids and so on and so forth. So, you know, and a lot of scenarios leaving your money at retirement, um, in TSP at retirement is detrimental.

Speaker1:
Well, that that's a story that I'm sure a lot can relate to. Yeah. When it comes to just not knowing all the options that are available because within TSP and you're referring to that, that lifetime, that life annuity that is usually advertised or that's what's shown on their annual statement, is the amount that they can receive. Not knowing all of the things that come on the back end with that choice. Yep. And like you said once they once they make that choice, it's set in stone and it's only there if they choose the maximum income from TSP, from that MetLife annuity. Single life only, which is most people say, yeah, I want to get the most I can out of this. That's without knowing the consequences. If you die prematurely, then the money's kept right. All that inheritance. You thought that, um, your friend was going to get. Well, it didn't happen because that's not the choice that was made. Most likely because it wasn't properly educated on all that stuff. Would that be a pretty good assessment? Right? They didn't know all the options, didn't know all the choices and wasn't properly educated on that.

Speaker2:
Absolutely. They never educated enough. Um, and you don't know until, you know. So you're in that scenario and it happens to you and then become hindsight. Oh, in hindsight, I probably should have found an advisor, rolled it over to another account. That made sense. Um, but in that moment, he didn't know. And it happens all the time. In fact, when that happened, my brother called OPM like, hey, what's going on? You know, this is not right. And, you know, he had to take a number because there's many other families in the way for our situation. Single mothers who didn't know that he wanted a higher income, opposed to have a lifetime for him and his spouse. He wanted just for his income because he thought the higher amount would be beneficial for their household because they had the supplement income at retirement and it wasn't, you know, or a scenario where, uh, where the spouse, the wife died first, the kids are waiting for the inheritance, thinking that they will inherit it to know this is false. So when the mom died and then the father died, it was the end of that's the end of the savings. And in that scenario, even when you choose the spouse inheritance, it goes from a 20 year break even point. It's about 2325 year break at that point. And if you're retiring at 65 years old, that means you gotta live between 85 to 90 years old as a, as a, as a actual spousal relationship or to actually receive what you say.

Speaker1:
Yeah, correct. So even even in that scenario, Jeff, you're right. Like if somebody does choose the spousal income with TSP and let's say, you know, the the retiree dies and then the spouse continues to get the income. Well, yeah, there's nothing that passes on to the kids beyond the spouse. Yeah. It's just for the now. It's paying for the life of two people or the lives of two people, but there's no lump sum. There's no death benefit. There's no proper transfer of assets. If there's anything left over. And I know that's what they're banking on, right? They're banking. It's a bet. It's a bet between the retiree and the insurance company. Metlife, who administers that lifetime income program with TSB. It's a bet they're thinking you're going to die before they send you all their money. And insurance companies, if we know anything about them, because we deal with a lot of them. They like to make bets that are in their favor. I'm just saying yeah, and yeah, they're they're not 500 and 1C3. They're for profit companies. So I get why that's desirable that choice. But in the case of your godfather yeah. It did not turn out the way he intended because you don't think you're going to die prematurely in retirement. You want to live long in retirement, but things happen. So we want to make sure that these federal employees are properly protected and their families are properly protected. Sure.

Speaker2:
Definitely, definitely. And another thing too is that, you know, when you're working, people say, well, what's your rollover money? Shall I wait till retirement to rollover? And my answer is you should do it yesterday because it's good for accumulation. But reality speaking the market is volatile. If. There's a crash or correction in the market. On average, it takes about 3 to 5 years to recover. And if you're eligible to retire to rollover at 60 years old, that means you're looking to retire in the next 2 to 5 years. So you might need to have time to recoup the losses. So I say, yeah, rollover as soon as you possibly can into the account. That's safe. That's why we specialize in safe money management because we're going to put their money in an account. They're going to have no market risk. That's really backed by insurance. That will still give a return. Because a lot of people say, well I could put money in the Jeep, but, well, that's a glorified savings account. The average return for the last two years is 2.5% last year to May 4th percent. Well guess what? Our average accounts are making anywhere between 7 to 10% annually. So you get the protection of a G fund. But the opportunity for growth of a seed fund potentially in some years.

Speaker1:
You know, as people get older, you know, they they tend to want to forego the opportunity for big reward because they know there's big risk with that. Yeah. And carrying that kind of risk into retirement is normally not ideal. Some people maybe, maybe a small percentage still are okay with taking a ton of risk, and that's fine. But for the majority of the folks we talk to on a daily basis, they're saying, hey, I don't want to put too much money at risk as I near or head to retirement, you know? So yeah, you're right, Jeff. Like those those plans that that are available that they may not know about because they're not advertised by TSP or it's not something that they're generally hearing from TSP, actually, they're not hearing it at all from TSP. And they need to talk to a specialist like yourself that can guide them in the proper direction.

Speaker2:
Exactly. And even for those who are a high risk people, the risk is not worth the reward on a statistical standpoint, if you're averaging, if you think you can make 12, 13% in the market, but we can give you 8 to 10% conservatively, is it really worth the three 4% risk factor? Is not worth it. Definitely. At your age, even if you're the most riskiest person in the world, it's just on a statistical standpoint and logistically speaking, it doesn't make sense.

Speaker1:
I tell people all the time, I'm like, you have done a great job always of accumulating this money. Awesome, great. But as you near retirement, yeah, it's time to take your foot off the gas and think about, you know, preserving. Yeah. Or at least a portion of it. Right. What what about do you want to preserve and conserve and make sure that it can't go anywhere at the last minute because there's so many stories, right. You talk to I talked to federal employees that were going to retire at the end of the year 2022. And it's kind of things have been going well. You know, there was the Covid dip down, but it came back up and the next thing 2022 happened and people lost a bunch of money. Yeah. And you know, it can be detrimental to their retirement income to lose ten 1520, 25% for the last year. I mean, how would that affect your account? Most people want to be a TSP millionaire. Okay, great. It was 20%. That's $200,000 in a year that had gone. I mean, how would that affect your retirement? So. Right. It's tough to stomach that.

Speaker2:
I always give them a story. You know, I love my stories. I say, look, you're in the casino, you're winning. You're hot man. Hey good job man. You're doing my job. I'm the wife. I'm the I'm the I'm the best friends. Tap in the shoulder. Tap tap tap. Amen. Give me your winnings. I'm going to put it in your room. You can still gamble. You can still invest in CSP. Have fun at it. But I'm going to take your pot of money that you won and put it in your room. And now just go reset and keep on accumulating. Keep on gambling in TSP. But the money that you want, that's lock it in shall we. Let's go home a winner. And they laugh and chuckle and it makes sense.

Speaker1:
Well that's it. Yeah. You're playing you're playing with a little bit of House's money at that point. But lock in some some of your earnings. Lock in some of your winnings. You know preserve the bulk of that because you play long enough, especially in the casino analogy. The house will win always. Men always.

Speaker2:
Win. And I tell and that's why I always use the casino as a look. They said, well what's the risk factor with rollover my money over. Like how is it no risk? How can it make sense? So I said, look, this is how it makes sense. Think of it going to a casino. And I'm going to tell you before we go. I guarantee you're not going to lose them. No money. You can gamble as much as you want, and they going to be hesitant because you're not a gambler or you're a gambler. And we go to casino Monday night and we lose everything Monday night. And you're looking at me, Jeff. You said I wasn't gonna lose any money. The market crash would happen. And sure enough, we go to the cashier and we showed them the envelope. And this envelope is an insurance policy showing that, hey, your money was in a fixed indexed annuity that was backed by insurance with no risk. And sure enough, the casino gives back our chips on Tuesday night. We do it again. We order drinks. Now, you're confident in my beliefs and make sure you don't take a loss. You're ordering meals. Bring a waitress, bring the drinks, and we lose again. Tuesday night. Same thing. Cashier gives us backup money. Could the insurance policy covered our actual gambling on Wednesday? We win. We double our money. Wednesday, Thursday we lose. Now the question is, will they give us the money that we initially started with or the winnings? We won on Wednesday night. Guess what? Everything's actually protected. And then on Friday the market crash again. Don't worry about it. We still covered. And that's the knowledge I use that in an annuity. In a proper account set up you will capture the gains in the market. But in the years that it crashes you're locked into where you at where you never take a loss because it's backed by insurance.

Speaker1:
Yeah. Like in that example I like I like the way you put it. Right. It's not it just if the if the asset could have gone down based on the market performance, it won't because it's protected. Right. Um, in in years when it can go up or opportunities where it can go up, it will. Let's say you didn't get the full return like you were saying. You can get 1,213%, but you only got eight in a plan of ours. Right? So you're you're you didn't go up as high, but once you get that interest it's locked in. It can't be taken away from me. And that's the cool part. Right. So if I, if I told you once you went up, you can never come back down. It's a like a staircase approach instead of a, you know, the heartbeat that you see a lot of times with the market. Yeah, that's that's cool. So if that if this part of the conversation interests you, those federal employees, and you want more clarity and you want to see exactly what that looks like for your situation, because I know you may or may not, um, love the analogies. I think they're great, but you may want more clarity on how this works. You reach out to us, right? And you can go to the website. As I mentioned, you can reach out via phone. You can, uh, contact Jeff and and get his, uh, guidance directly, uh, via email. But I do want to go to one other thing. And I know you had a third topic that you think federal employees need assistance with, but what would you say that is?

Speaker2:
So there's an option for spouses. It's called survivor benefit. And this is the option where you choose either 10% or 5% to leave behind from your pension. So hypothetically, round numbers.

Speaker1:
Are 50 and 25. I know you're going to cost me 15 to.

Speaker2:
2550, 25% of the pension will cost you 10% or 5% of your pension. So, for example, if you make $1,000 a month, they're going to charge you on average $100, which is 10% for your spouse to receive $500. And in that scenario, you always choose it because you want to leave something behind. You don't want to have your spouse be without. But now let's go into scenarios. What if you're a female and your spouse is the male? And in that scenario, on average, if you're at the same age? Again, I'm all about probability and averages. Sure, you may go for women. So in that scenario and that scenario, there's a chance no guarantee was a chance that your spouse would be passed away before you pass away. And in that scenario, if you choose the reduction in income, in hindsight it won't be the best choice. Now, you took a lesser, lesser fee. Now there may be a scenario. You know you have no choice because he might be on your medical plan. But there are other options that we chose. There may be a 25% reduction, and then you get to charge 5% and then look that other 5% to outside entities that you can supplement the income. Now they can receive maybe 100% or in the worst case scenario, can redesign or reallocate that beneficiary to somebody else.

Speaker1:
Yeah, I like I like what you're saying though with the survivor benefit, we've said this for a while that it's, uh, I think it's a bad piece of life insurance. Yeah. We can go over all the details for people and say why and share with them each federal employee why we think it's a bad piece of life insurance. You did mention the health insurance component. Yeah. There there are reasons why people would at least get the minimum 25% to keep the health insurance. And that's a that's a totally separate conversation to have. But you know what? So you're saying what if. What if you used the entire amount, um, instead of paying the 10% or only paying five? You take the remaining amount. And do what? Purchase an actual life insurance plan? Yeah, that's that's a lot better and better designed for that family. Is that what you're saying?

Speaker2:
Absolutely. Now you can make that spouse can either a have more income at retirement and the the event of the demise or be that spouse passes away and then they can change the beneficiary. So now it's just not a spousal survivorship. It could be a beneficial beneficiary with the ship. Now your kids can inherit it opposed to your spouse.

Speaker1:
And here's something else I'm thinking of here as you're saying that is you know, the government says the maximum that you can leave your spouse is 50%. Um, so basically saying one person can live on half as much as two. But I've seen this in practice to not be correct. Right. The bills if something happens the bills don't cut in half. No. Um, that's that's just not how it works. Right. So a lot of times if you ask the spouse what they want, they want more than 50%. It might be more like 60 or 75% at least if the federal retiree dies. Yeah. You can't do that with the federal program. And now with a private plan, an actual life insurance plan. Yeah, this is customizable. You can create whatever you want for the federal employee, correct?

Speaker2:
Oh, yeah. Definitely. Absolutely.

Speaker1:
Yeah. So that's where I agree with you there. You know, that that is a concern that not a whole lot of people think about because it's it's far away. It's in retirement. But you got to plan properly because just like that TSP move that you mentioned with the the income. Yeah. Once that's made that the story you're telling about your godfather, once that decision is made to take that income from TSP that life annuity, it's irrevocable. It's set in stone. Yeah. That's basically the same for that survivor benefit choice too. Once that's done, once that's made, when you fill out your retirement paperwork, that's set in stone as well. And you can't just say, yeah, we don't need this anymore, let's change it, because we can use that 5% or 10% back in the paycheck. So you want to make sure you're talking to somebody like Jeff who's knowledgeable to say, hey, we got to go over this survivor benefit choice because you want to make sure you're making the right decision.

Speaker2:
Right. And another thing too, is like another philosophy that I love. The last nugget on everybody is this what's life insurance for? Is it for you or your beneficiaries? Right. And if you're in a 60 year old range retiring and you're still paying life insurance, think about this for a minute. The beneficiaries are probably going to be in their 30s, 20s and 30s for sure, possibly in the 40s, depending on when you have kids. If the insurance is for them. And they are capable adults. Who is possibly working? You hoping that they're working? Then maybe they should be paying for their insurance. So I always tell my clients, look, there's assurances for them, not for you. So you call your beneficiaries of ask them, hey. I am willing to get life insurance on the benefit for you. How much do you want to pay towards it? Because it's not for me. It's for you. And you're an adult now. You're not somebody who's dependent on me. You are dependent on yourself. And if you want to, you can create a retirement account from my life. Yeah. Tell me how much money you want to set aside for your future in the event of my device or not, even in the event in the inevitable amount of ice, because that's something we all will go through at some point in time. It sounds morbid, but it's true. True. And I had people create retirement accounts based upon life insurance plans and putting on their elders, man or their parents. Because guess what $300 set aside on life insurance plan? Would that be term, uh, Gul or IRA or what have you, but that's $3 a month. Can be a six figure. You know, high six figure policy. You take the same $300 and put so far one K. I did the math. It doesn't match up that life bridge is playing. You probably has a greater chance to receive more income in the future, and less amount of time than putting that $3 a month into A41K into the stock market with volatility.

Speaker1:
And now we're talking about totally different type of thing. It combined with that survivor benefit choice. You're talking about wealth transfer.

Speaker2:
Yes.

Speaker1:
Um, you know just a transfer of assets to a beneficiary. Yeah. What's a good investment. You don't want to think of your your loved ones passing away. But it generally even if, even if they live to be 95 and you invested that money for them or into them using a life insurance policy and they want to leave a legacy for you. Yeah, that's something that they don't have to have it saved up in a 401 K, which is going to cause a tax burden or a tax problem. Also, you can have it in a life insurance policy where it's going to be tax free, tax free. Now that's okay. Now we've got some ears perking up probably to say, yeah, this is not creating a tax bomb for your beneficiaries. This is creating, uh, a tax free transfer of wealth or legacy gift legacy offering to your loved ones. I like that, Jeff. When you're talking or.

Speaker2:
Yeah, or kids, you talk to each kid. Hey, how much came in for a month. For what? Your mom's or dad's death. Okay. I can put $100 in each kid, put their portion in. And based upon the percentages that's put together, the the allocation is very simple. Each kid put $100 a month to 25% per kid. That's now, uh, almost a $800 thousand dollar policy. And potentially it'll be sizable. And guess what? The parent is not burdened to cover this cost for beneficiaries who are an adults, and now they're already at a reduced income. Why do they need to further reduce their income to take care of something that they shouldn't have to at the age?

Speaker1:
Now, that's an interesting way of looking at it. And most people probably don't. Right. Because they're like, oh, I don't want to invest in my my loved one pass it away. And that's yeah, that is a, an interesting way of looking at it. But why else do you have life insurance if not to leave a legacy? And there's a lot of experts out there, financial experts that would say, don't leave assets to your kids, leave them life insurance.

Speaker2:
I'll say.

Speaker1:
This. Don't leave it to your kids. Yeah, you go ahead.

Speaker2:
When somebody said, well, that sounds so morbid to put life insurance on my mom, I said, well, think about this for a minute. What's what's a what's hard to grasp? You paint into a life insurance for your mom so that you benefit or have your mom take her new reduced income to have life insurance for your benefit. Yeah. And they always say, well, I guess I would rather cover it for my mom for my benefit, then have her with her new reduced income. Pay a cost for my benefit, right?

Speaker1:
And Uncle Sam is not going to take a piece of your mom dying either. In this example, you're going to get all that money. It's tax free. So that's a lot of things. If you were to have them put that money aside and or if it was their, their 401 K or TSP or whatever, that they were leaving as a legacy, right? Uncle Sam's going to get his piece eventually. Exactly. So that's that's a way to avoid that. And, you know, pass pass your wealth over on a tax free basis. Yep. But Jeff, I know we covered a bunch and we're we're right at the top of our uh, at the end of our time today. But I really appreciate it. I know you're a busy guy, uh, talking to a lot of folks on a daily basis, so I really appreciate you taking some time today to chat with us. Yes. Um, and to share your your guidance, your expertise and any final thoughts, anything that you want to leave us with before we wrap it up today?

Speaker2:
No. You know, we're a pleasure to help you know, better employees. Our goal has always been to educate and just put people in the best position possible to reach retirement.

Speaker1:
Well, and that's, you know, the nature of this show, right, is to give them the guidance, make sure that they have all the information that federal employees need to make the best decisions. So if you could, if you want, uh, reach out to Jeff and get his expertise, go over your situation with him. Um, his email is Jeff at benefit advisor.us, and he'd be happy to talk with you. Whether you live in California, where he's from or you're at the other side of the country in Maine or Florida, uh, it doesn't matter which agency you work with. You know, Jeff has been an expert for, uh, working with federal employees of all shapes and sizes, uh, for the past decade and would be glad to assist you and answer any of your questions. So, again, Jeff, thank you for joining us today. Uh, really look forward to watching. Do It again. I enjoyed our conversation a lot to do one more time. Absolutely awesome. Well, thank you. Thank you all for joining us on this episode. Hopefully you got a lot of great information out of it. You enjoyed our conversation. We look forward to seeing you on a future session.

Speaker2:
Absolutely. Bye.

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